Creating a world free of poverty on a livable planet has been the vision and mission of the World Bank Group since October 2023. But what does it mean for people and planet? We¡¯ve just wrapped up our series of podcasts exploring these crucial questions, and in this episode we bring you some of the highlights from the last year. We take you on a journey around the world from Samoa to Nepal and hear from youth activists, refugees, entrepreneurs, development partners and leaders from the World Bank Group.
Tell us what you think of our podcast . We would love to hear from you!
Featured Voices
- Abdullahi Mire, winner of the 2023 UNHCR Nansen Refugee Award
- Anna Bjerde, Managing Director of Operations at the World Bank
- Anubha Shukla, Vice President, D2R, Husk Power?
- Cristi¨¢n Samper, Managing Director and leader of Nature Solutions at Bezos Earth Fund?
- Gita Gopinath, First Deputy Managing Director, International Monetary Fund
- Inger Anderson, Executive Director, UN Environment Programme
- Raouf Mazou, Assistant High Commissioner for Operations at UNHCR
- Manoj Sinha, CEO of Husk Power
- Maryse Mbonyumutwa, CEO of Pink Mango and Founder of Asantii
- Nancy Karambo Riungu, a Kenyan entrepreneur and expert tailor working directly with refugees
- O¡¯Neall Massamba, Transport Unit - Western?and Central?Africa, World Bank Group
- Tulshi Suwal, a Nepalese conservationist
- Valerie Hickey, Global Director of Environment, Natural Resources and Blue Economy, the World Bank
- Xavier Devictor, Co-Director of the 2023 World Development Report ?
Transcript
[00:00] Sarah Jane Treanor: Hello and welcome to The Development Podcast from the World Bank Group. I'm Sarah Treanor. Join us ahead of a short summer break as we take a trip around the globe to bring you highlights from our series exploring how to end poverty on a livable planet. We'll take you from Samoa to Nepal and explore what a livable planet means for jobs, for the climate, for women, forests, for refugees, and for the next generation.
Anubha Shukla: There's no bigger problem for the world to fix today than the climate problem. The world is not going to be a very cozy, hospitable place in the future unless we do something about it today, and I think young people realize this more than anybody else.
Sarah Jane Treanor: We'll be getting the view from youth activists.
Brianna Fruean: And so I started to physically and emotionally encapsulate what climate change was because I realized that I was living in it.
Sarah Jane Treanor: From partners, including the UN.
Raouf Mazou: You find societies and communities which no longer have access to water, no longer have access to arable land, and that is creating conflict.
Sarah Jane Treanor: We'll get an insight into the jobs of the future and from the World Bank about the value of nature for us all.
Valerie Hickey: Nature and forests are an engine of economic development. They're the path out of poverty.
Sarah Jane Treanor: The Development Podcast, Livable Planet, from the World Bank Group.
Ajay Banga: We must find a way to finance a different world where our climate is protected, where pandemics are manageable, if not preventable, where food is abundant, and fragility and poverty are defeated. So our task is great. We must be an institution that exports optimism and impact. So the World Bank is turning to face the wind, and today there is a new vision and mission for the World Bank, and that is to create a world free of poverty on a livable planet.
Sarah Jane Treanor: That was World Bank Group President Ajay Banga speaking at the in Marrakesh. This landmark address outlined both a new vision for the World Bank and the roadmap to achieve it. It ushered in a new era. To really get to grips with what a livable planet means, here at The Development Podcast, we decided to launch a miniseries exploring this new focus for the institution and how it impacts partners and people all over the world.
[02:42] We started shortly after last year's UN Climate Change conference, COP28, in Dubai by speaking to some of those at the forefront of the battle against the climate crisis. Let's hear now from Samoa, from one youth climate activist, Brianna Fruean, who spoke about her love for the region and commitment to fighting for its future.
Brianna Fruean: My name is Suluafi Brianna Fruean. So Suluafi is my Samoan chiefly name, and I do climate work.
Sarah Jane Treanor: I asked Brianna to describe to me a sense of what it was like growing up.
Brianna Fruean: Picture perfect, picturesque, clear waters, white sandy beaches, type of beach you see in a postcard. I was always surrounded by waterfalls and lush gardens and forests growing up. It really was as cliche as it sounds. I felt like I was blessed to grow up in paradise. And of course, not saying that paradise didn't have its problems, but a very big problem that I felt was about to take away this paradise for me was climate change.
Sarah Jane Treanor: Brianna said that she didn't really think about climate change.
Brianna Fruean: Until I learned about coral bleaching, and that's when everything clicked to me, where I was thinking, "Okay, no wonder why the fish stock at the fish market is not looking the same as when I was five years old." From these small little things like the visual change of fish stock to the big things like the cyclone, and actually physically being in a cyclone, being in two or three cyclones from the age of 10 to the age of 15, and I would talk to my mom. She said that her first cyclone she experienced was when she was 19. And so I started to physically and emotionally encapsulate what climate change was because I realized that I was living in it.
Sarah Jane Treanor: Well, the goal of keeping global temperature rises to under 1.5 degrees is off track. And this is something we talked about with the .
Inger Anderson: We keep calling out the G20 because that is where we have this 76% of all emissions. But there's also huge injustice because if we look at 10% of the highest income population, they are responsible for 48% of all emissions. And if we look at the bottom 50% of the world population, they are responsible for just 12% of emissions. So we have a lot of work to do.
Sarah Jane Treanor: Anna Bjerde, Managing Director of Operations at the World Bank, told us this.
Anna Bjerde: I do love our new vision, which is end poverty on a livable planet. Why I love it is because at the end of the day, our core objective and core work at the World Bank is about ending poverty. But the fact that we're adding on a livable planet means so much because it recognizes that we are about people and the planet, and the two go hand in hand. And the planet, a livable planet means of course climate change, environmental stewardship, but it also means things like health services, and access to energy and clean water and clean air.
[05:59] Sarah Jane Treanor: Well, climate change is also a catalyst for the movement of people. The climate crisis is a well-known driver of migration and often exacerbates the impact of conflict and violence. The links between refugees and climate are something we discussed with . He told us about the record numbers of refugees around the world and some of the pressures contributing to this increase.
Raouf Mazou: What is new and what we're seeing more now is the role of climate change and the fact that climate change is having an impact on societies. You find societies and communities which no longer have access to water, no longer have access to arable land, and that is creating conflict. So in the past, the tendency was to focus on the immediate cause, which is the conflict which results in people moving. But now more and more you can see that climate change is having a huge impact on communities in many, many different ways.
Sarah Jane Treanor: We had the pleasure of hearing from . He grew up in the vast Dadaab refugee camp in Kenya after fleeing Somalia as a small child with his family. Abdullahi told me about his passion for education, and how he wants to try and get books into the hands of every refugee child who needs one.
Abdullahi Mire: As you know, the people from Somalia mostly in my community are pastoralists. When it doesn't rain, they lose a livestock and it's hard for them to feed the children and families. They flee to look for safety and better place. So Dadaab is a home to people who are seeking asylum. This is a safe haven for people who are fleeing the war, the climate change, and the crisis in the region. Growing up, in this school, I used to see journalists come into the camps. I was inspired by that. I ever wanted to tell the history of my own people. I believe the power of storytelling. Stories can change life. Information itself is high. It can save people.
Sarah Jane Treanor: The World Bank's Xavier Devictor, co-director of the 2023 World Development Report, emphasized that integrating refugee communities is key and a cost that countries could benefit by investing in.
Xavier Devictor: So if you go to any refugee camp or refugee settlement, you're going to be struck by the number of children, young children. Obviously educating them is of primordial importance for themselves, for their countries of origin, because if they return, they will be actually the next generation of these countries of origin. And for the hosting countries, because the last thing you want is to have a large, uneducated, marginalized young population. The question is how do you do this? Now for a long time, the international community has looked at a variety of solutions. One of them has been to support countries in including refugees in their national education system. And the benefit of that is simple. Refugees are going to get degrees that actually recognize on the labor market that they're first going to face. Refugees are going to receive the same education as the nationals, and so there won't be any kind of suspicion, jealousy, or misperception or misfeeling that creates social tensions. So that's critical. Now, for a very long time most countries have said, "We're willing to do this, but there's a cost." And so the question is who's paying for it? What we've done with some recent analytical work is actually to quantify these costs, and actually it's not that large. So if you take all refugees who live in low-income countries, the poorest countries, and if you imagine that you put all their children in national education systems, the total cost is at about $300 million a year, which is large, but which is very small for the international community.
Sarah Jane Treanor: And finally, we spoke to one entrepreneur who has been working with refugees in the large Kakuma camp in Kenya. She's been working with the to help train people inside the camp with skills such as tailoring.
Nancy Karambo Riungu: Okay, thank you Sarah. My name's Nancy Karambo Riungu. I am based in Turkana, Kakuma to be precise. I am a business lady, an entrepreneur. Professionally, I am a nurse. With the time I started training the refugees and host community on tailoring and dressmaking, and that is how I managed to grow very fast. There is a very good relationship between the host community and refugees, and I really enjoy working with all of them. I eventually managed to train so many, some have established their businesses.
[11:01] Sarah Jane Treanor: Great to hear from Nancy there. And when we talk about skills and job creation, one question to ask when we think about a livable planet is, what is a green job? This is an important topic as jobs in polluting industries are a continued stumbling block for a reduction in carbon emissions. So can they be replaced by roles in sectors such as green energy? Are there enough green jobs for the globe's youth? We heard from . Husk Power provides energy services in off-grid or poorly connected communities. Let's take a listen.
Manoj Sinha: The reason for starting this company emanated from the fact then when I was growing up in Bihar, which is a state with 110 million people and about 70% did not have access to any power back then, I experienced that problem firsthand. I did have access to some electricity while my first cousin and uncles and aunts, they didn't have access to electricity. I saw how much opportunity I got in first 20, 25 years of growing up while my cousins did not. Even today, they have not really even stepped into the middle-class family of India, so it was a pretty stark difference of what opportunities can electricity bring if you have access to it versus not. So we have pioneered this method of decentralized electrification and distribution that focuses squarely on these rural people who are actually disproportionately adversely impacted by a lack of it. We didn't want to use fossil fuel because we wanted to be cognizant of climate change, and that's why we picked renewable energy, which was not in fashion, if you will, back in those days. We used biomass gasification system back then because solar PV was much, much, much more expensive than it is today.
Sarah Jane Treanor: A key part of the puzzle when it comes to green jobs is inclusivity, something I spoke to about. She is Vice President of D2R at Husk Power Systems and is also a solar engineer.
Anubha Shukla: And there's no bigger problem for the world to fix today than the climate problem. The world is not going to be a very cozy, hospitable place in the future unless we do something about it today, and I think young people realize this more than anybody else. Millennials and Gen Z have lived in a world riddled with problems that the previous generations never had to see.
Sarah Jane Treanor: And speaking of younger generations and those yet to enter the workforce, perhaps, how important do you think green jobs will become?
Anubha Shukla: Renewable jobs are going to be a very important part of the growth story of any growing nation. The median age for India right now is 28 years, and the median age for Nigeria, another country that I work with, is 17 years. So there are a lot of people who are coming into new jobs or into the workforce. It's not just about jobs for them, it's also about meaningful jobs. And I personally feel that renewable energy and young job seekers are a very obvious match. Personally, also, I feel that I found a lot of acceptance for me as a young woman in the solar space because, since it's a relatively newer industry, legacy jobs aren't as old or require as much experience as they would in any other industries that have existed for generations.
[14:34] Sarah Jane Treanor: And speaking of inclusivity and women leading the way, we took a deep dive into the economics of gender equality for our episode in March to coincide with International Women's Day. We had the pleasure of welcoming , into the studio in Washington D.C. She told us about the benefit for all when women prosper.
Gita Gopinath: We are staring at a growth projection which is one of the weakest we've seen in several decades. So we are looking at medium-term growth of around 3% or so. So as countries, we need to find ways of boosting growth. And one surefire way of doing that is by bringing more women into the workforce. So if you look at labor force participation rates of women right now, that's 47%. For men, that number is 72%. So there is a big gap in terms labor force participation between men and women, and therefore just a simple arithmetic of bringing more women into the labor force can do wonders for growth. So if I were to give you a statistic, if you think of emerging market and developing economies, if they can increase their labor force participation rates by around six percentage points, then they can raise their GDP by about 8% over the next few years. These are sizeable gains and absolutely critical.
Sarah Jane Treanor: And we also got a snapshot of a female-focused business in Rwanda putting inclusivity at its heart.
Maryse Mbonyumutwa: So my name is Maryse Mbonyumutwa. So I've been in this business for the last 23 years, working mainly with factories in China and Southeast Asia for major retailers in Europe. Just launched also a new project, which is a brand called Asantii, a new Pan-African brand. So first of all, we do have a free lunch for all the workers. Then we have set up a nursery since 2020, it's a pilot project for the moment, but where we welcome free of charge, completely free of charge, children of the factory workers. A breastfeeding program. We introduced also free sanitary pads for women because we realized after one year we started working, one of the main reason for absenteeism was also women not having access to hygienic products and they will feel embarrassed to come to work. Our human resource manager is a woman. The corporate social responsibility Pink Ubuntu program, as well, is also a woman. The fact that ourselves, women, mothers, we do have probably a level of understanding and empathy.
[17:29] Sarah Jane Treanor: Well, the relationship between prosperity and the natural environment is also a critical piece of the livable planet puzzle. How to create wealth sustainably while still preserving biodiversity in the natural world is a pertinent question, as our guest Valerie Hickey, Global Director of Environment at the World Bank, explained. She told us that ecosystems and economic growth are intrinsically linked.
Valerie Hickey: Traditionally in economics, we've had this paradigm of grow now, clean up later. And that has also meant deforest now, figure out how to reforest later. That's why we've ended up losing an area the size of Ethiopia in the last 20 years, and in the 20 years before that, because we simply haven't valued nature. We haven't valued forests. And given that over one and a half billion people live within five kilometers of forests, 300 million people live within or on the boundary of tropical forests. It's a huge number. So if we don't think about forests as an engine of economic development, we make a mistake. The other original sin that we have is that for too long, we talked about conservation when it came to forestry. And we asked those 300 million people living in tropical forests, for example, to forgo their development. It's okay for you to stay poor as long as the trees stand. And that's not okay. For most people who live in rural areas, forests and the ecosystem services they provide are the only path out of poverty. Think about land degradation. So 40% of people globally are suffering from land degradation. Places like Rwanda, they're losing 25 tons of topsoil per hectare per year. This isn't a country that routinely suffers from drought or flooding, that isn't always food secure, and yet you're losing all this amazing topsoil because the forests have been cut. Nature and forests are an engine of economic development. They're the path out of poverty for communities who live in and near forests.
Sarah Jane Treanor: told me about how the fund is focusing on partnerships and indigenous solutions in many parts of the world.
Cristi¨¢n Samper: The only way this is going to work is by working with and empowering local communities to be stewards of nature. We do a lot of work with Indigenous peoples and local communities around the whole issue of securing tenure rights. We just started last year building a portfolio of grants in the Brazilian Amazon, and one of the cornerstones of that effort is helping secure the rights of Indigenous communities to their territories. We have very good evidence showing that when these communities are empowered and can really manage these territories, the rate of deforestation in these areas is substantially reduced.
[20:15] Sarah Jane Treanor: But what about working at the World Bank over the last year? How have the goals of ending poverty on a livable planet informed the culture of the organization and what we do? I spoke to one young staff member about her reflections the past year at the World Bank Group.
O¡¯Neall Massamba: So my name is . I work as an African Diaspora Fellow in infrastructure in the West and Central Africa Transport Unit at the World Bank. And I work mostly on issues pertaining to regional connectivity, but also rural accessibility, transport decarbonization, and also finding solutions to sustainably finance infrastructure. And in addition to that, which I call my day-to-day job, I'm also passionate about youth engagement, have been doing work with regard to youth engagement since I joined the bank. And so since 2020 I've been involved in different youth initiative at the World Bank, most recently as manager of the Youth Summit. I was manager of the Youth Summit for two years in 2022 and 2023. So I am originally from the Republic of Congo, which is a low-income country that grapples with a lot of development challenges. And so ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to be in a position where one day I would be able to do a work that will allow me to make an impact, not only in the Republic of Congo, but also in countries similar to the Republic of Congo, and really allow me to use my skills and expertise to do so. And so that was with that objective in mind that I wanted to work at the World Bank.
Sarah Jane Treanor: Let's talk a bit more about livable planet because obviously that's been something that over the past 18 months has been a key priority.
O¡¯Neall Massamba: For me, this mission statement is really key because it really reflects the World Bank commitment to really eradicate poverty in all its form, and ensure fair and just access to resources and opportunities to all while maintaining the planet's health and sustainability for future generations. So I really think that for me, ending poverty on a livable planet really showcases a holistic approach to development, that not only seeks to balance human well-being with environmental consideration, but also really highlight the correlation between the two and how the two are intertwined.
Sarah Jane Treanor: Well, thank you so much to everyone who came on our race around the globe as we unpacked what it means to talk about a livable planet. We're having a podcast break for the rest of August, but we'll be back and refreshed in September with a new episode for you. If you'd like to get in touch, please do. We're at thedevelopmentpodcast@worldbank.org and please do have a look at our back catalog in the meantime. There's a lot to choose from, from our recent episode on what artificial intelligence could mean for global development to a deep dive on how we support the world's poorest countries. Thanks again for listening. We'll be back soon.
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ABOUT THE WORLD BANK
The World Bank is one of the world¡¯s largest sources of funding and knowledge for low-income countries. Its five institutions share a commitment to reducing poverty, increasing shared prosperity, and promoting sustainable development on a livable planet.